Questions Over Tea (In-Person Interviews)

Last week I went to two in-person interviews at two completely different types of schools. From what I experienced I can see that the competition is fierce and schools have the upper hand.

The first interview was at a hagwon or private academy. I am not really looking to work at a hagwon since I have gotten use to not teaching kindy and I like the public school schedule. But I was sold by the ad and I knew the recruiter. He basically sold the school as one of the best. Indeed, as the interview developed,  I realized it really was a diamond amongst them all. The interview was on Thursday, after work, and I showed up on-time.

I was greeted by one of the head teachers and was told to take a seat, while she got me a cup of tea. Then she came back in along with another head teacher. I was told usually they conduct the interview with all the teachers and the director, but due to the timing that wasn't happening.

Their questions were really serious and a few took me by surprise. Although I was nervous I tried my best to answer honestly and to share points that I thought would show me as a good candidate. Here are some of the questions they asked:

• What are your strengths? 
• What are your weaknesses?
• What would you do if there was a bully in the class?
• What would you do if there was a shy student in the class?
• Are you comfortable teaching kindergarten? 

Then I met with the director who pointed out aspects of the contract and asked me a few similar questions. The other two left the meeting (I said thank you and shook their hands) and I was left with the director. He asked me if I had any questions about the contract and I just asked simple things like sick days.  Then he showed me around the school and I complimented him on how nice it looked, and lastly I was out the door.

Although I felt really positive and excited after the interview I found out today that they didn't pick me. There were 4 positions and the recruiter told me they interviewed 7 people. In a way I feel kind of left out of this "secret club" of well treated hagwon workers with amazing pay and an amazing house. But then I also feel relieved because it would have been a 40 hour work week (36 teaching) that included kindergarten kids. At this time, when I am thinking of upgrading to middle school kids, downgrading to kindy doesn't really make sense.

Then came Friday where I had an interview all the way up in Nowon, Seoul.

source

This was for a Private Elementary School, meaning it goes by the regular public school schedule and has within it all the usual benefits. But instead of using the national curriculum they give English teachers a subject to teach like Math, Science or Language Arts. One of the eye catching parts of this job was that you get to have your own classroom and own grade to teach. 

I was excited for this job but the hagwon left me excited to teach for them. However, I tried my best to show enthusiasm at the interview.

I had to leave work after lunch on Friday to get to the school in Nowon at 3:30. Indeed, it took me nearly two and a half hours to get there. I walked up a tree lined street with large apartments on all sides, which made me wonder where the teachers lived. Then I came to the school, which was like a public school but with a great make-over. The kids were running around wearing uniforms and matching little yellow backpacks.

I found the meeting room and was told to take a seat and the coordinator would be down soon. I waited for him over a cup of warm tea. When he came he looked tired and busy. In fact he told me that he has been having a lot of interviews and because of this has been busy. He told me he didn't really have the time to look over my details closely. I said "no problem" and that "he could ask me anything."

As he asked me questions and listened to me talk he looked over my resume and cover letter. Some of his questions were:

• How do you feel about teaching Math?
• Do you need the housing deposit? 
• What grades do you like most?
• Why do you like teaching?
• What are your best characteristics?
• Do you consider yourself a really organized person?

The "Math" question was due to that he noticed I have a degree in art and that he has gotten a lot of applicants with a degree in art. I told him honestly that I would never really imagine myself teaching math, but that doesn't mean I don't like it.  I expressed my happiness in the math classes I took in college. He was a bit surprised to hear I took math in college, so I explained to him that it was part of the basic requirements for getting the degree. Also I told him that in class there will likely to be students who don't like math so it will be up to the teacher's skills to make him interested. I was trying to make the point that a math major isn't necessary to teach math. He seemed impressed.

The "organized person" question was his way of indirectly asking me if I don't mind it when my manager asks me to do something at the last minute. In other words, how do I handle the Korean work environment? I first answered with the typical, "Yes, I am organized" and then switched into, "Yes I don't mind getting information at the last moment." Basically telling him that I have adjusted to the Korean work environment and understand it all. He smiled at this.

All I can gather from this interview is that the guy has a lot of candidates and so many number of positions. The school has 23 Native Teachers already teaching grades 1 - 6, so I suppose a bundle of those aren't staying on board. He told me he has to work out who fits where and will get back to me by the end of next week. On my way out there was already another guy ready for his interview. Oh, I forgot to mention that I brought with me a folder of my summer camp work to show him. He looked at it and seemed impressed.

I left feeling good about this interview, but at the same time unsure since the guy was a little out of it. I am excited for the school and it's program but not the location.

More opportunities come up every week on Dave's ESL job board and elsewhere. Plus I have a few recruiters on the job. But regular public schools are still too early to look for. In the end, I don't really want to move away from this area and feeling queezy about living in the cement-blockade that is Seoul. But I really want a good challenge next year and will apply to schools that I see could provide this.

Monday is coming ~ what opportunities are around the corner?

The Changed Job Market for Public School Seekers

As I consider my future job hunt here in Korea I am starting to recognize how much things have changed. First let me just say this is only in regards to public schools, since that is my target. Also keep in mind this is for those looking for a public school in Gyeonggi-do and not going the way of the GEPIK application. Meaning finding a school that searches for their own teacher instead of having one randomly placed there. One could still apply to GEPIK and find themselves placed at a school randomly but only for the Fall or Spring start.

Now that I got that out of the air let's look at how things have changed for those seeking a public school outside the application process.

Last year I was looking for a job around this time. I was in Korea and just got my TEFL certificate and was finishing my previous school. I had several offers and more were coming in towards the end of my contract. I was just looking for elementary schools and in a target region of Yongin and Bundang, so things were naturally limited. Yet I did have offers and even some schools willing to hire me on the spot.

Although I am not looking for a job currently my foreign coworker is and has been having trouble. Things are definitely more competitive now and schools are for sure being more picky. Another factor seems to be that people are choosing to continue their careers here in Korea so there are more experienced people to compete with than before.

However, my coworker has had several offers, one she rejected and others rejected her. I believe she has landed a job now but there are some complications in her documents. So things aren't terribly bleak but from what I can tell she didn't have a whole lot to choose from. In the past you could have more choices but these days being picky is hard.

The landscape of job hunting for a public school in Korea has changed because there has been a surge in applicants and schools have become pickier.

I saw what was happening to my coworker as warning signs for my future job hunt and so decided to contact a few recruiters with my concerns.

Recruiters Expressing the Change:

The following are the responses I got from several recruiters. I won't mention who they are but they are coming from reputable sources.

1. "We have not been too successful with these of late. (Talking about independent public schools)
   Getting the match is simply too hard and usually a waste of time for us.
   Most schools want experienced, white, young, pretty, US females in Korea now.
   If we are lucky enough to have those candidates, we have to be able to offer them positions in the locations they desire.
   If we are incredibly lucky to still have a match, the teacher has to be able to pass the interview and get the docs in before the other applicants from other companies.
   It just does not usually work out. So we will not be dealing with independent schools anymore. Life is too short for them.
   I do hope you find something you want."
2. "Honestly competition among foreign teachers to get a position is really intense so far. Even stable public schools or private academies’ principals tell me they want teacher who has degree in English or Education or Teacher license. Or they are looking for a teacher who has teaching experiences in Korea AND who is in Korea. Because economy in Korea is bad like the world does. So their budget is reduced. They need to stay on the budget and have to hire qualified teacher. So they choose to do not pay overseas flights then hire a qualified teacher. Even some Public schools and private academies don’t care TEFL, TESOL.
   School needs to prove they have good quality teachers for students. Most foreign teachers who already stay in Korea currently, they are extending to contract with school for next year. Because they heard there are no opportunities to make money back home now. I think you don’t want to work for bad institute during your rest of contracted days. So I’m telling you about present scene of Teaching in Korea. Anyway I didn’t mean to knock you down about it. But if my say made you it, I apologize to you."

 This line "Most schools want experienced, white, young, pretty, US females in Korea now " seems to be the most controversial part of this new job hunting game. Even on Dave's ESL cafe there are threads where people go on about how they can't get a job because they don't fit the new biased criteria of schools. We can sit here and discuss this discrimination and outright illogical thinking, but the reality is schools have the upper hand. In that case one needs to prepare themselves for a much harder job hunting climate.

My advice to get a job in this new climate:

1. Be patient! Look at the reality of the situation and understand that it might take longer than expected.
2. Get a professional photo. It really doesn't take much to put on an ironed dress-shirt and sit in front of a camera. In fact you can go to your local Emart or Lotte mart and make a visit to the photo booth section. Here they can take your photo under those studio lights than do a little photoshopping to make everything look smooth. You can get both digital and hard copies to take home. From what I have heard on Dave's ESL, and from what my coworker has experienced, this seems to be working like a charm. Consider your professional photo next to other applicant's casual ones, which one do you think they will take more seriously.  
3. Be nice to the recruiters. They probably have no worries with getting paid. So if you are rude or impatient to them they can likely put you on the bottom of their pile. I suggest keeping things simple and concise when communicating. Also some might not know all the answers to things such as immigration issues or (well) your life.
4. Have a Plan B, C, D... Because the job market is tougher one should have a plan if they don't get a new job right after your current contract ends. Either make plans to go back to your home country or choose to stay in Korea. You can stay here on an extended visa or go in and out of the country and stay here on a tourist visa. This goes without saying, but have money saved up for this in between time.
5. Send photos of your work with children: Some might say schools don't want to hire experienced teachers because they cost more. However sending pictures of you working with happy smiling children might convince a school otherwise. If you are working at a school now ask your coteacher to take your picture during a special activity. 

It is my opinion that there is no solid "one type" of person that schools are looking for. One school might want an experienced applicant while another wants one fresh off the boat. Yes it is important to keep in mind that most schools are choosing just based on age, race and looks. We all know this is wrong but it is the way it is. That's why you have to take what you got and step it up a notch! 

Although, all of this makes me nervous I can't help but see that it was inevitable. With the job market being so poor in America (and other countries) and new graduates having trouble finding work coming here looks like gold. 

The most important aspect I feel, in the end, is to support each other. That is what I am doing right now by providing this insight I feel on the current job market.

But let's hear from you!

Are you having troubles finding a new job?
If you work for a hagwon are things changing in that sector too?
Any words of wisdom?

Comments?

Official GEPIK Recruiters for 2010

One positive spinoff from my coworker not renewing her contract is that she got a list of the Official GEPIK recruiters. This was given to her by our GEPIK coordinator.

Since I am planning on later looking for a job in February it would be great to have this list. Plus I now know where I can get an updated one.

I thought I would share this list with you in case it is needed. If you are thinking about working for GEPIK and want to find a school that hires outside the typical season this would be good for you.

1. ezEnglish: Looks like they have a lot of public schools and private schools to choose from. I never used these guys so can't comment about their service.
2. Korvia: These are one of the big guys. I used them for getting my second job in Korea. They did a pretty good job, but I do have to say there was a lack of post-placement care.
3. YouniKorea: I used these guys last year to help look for a job. They didn't place me with one but did give me some offers. 
4. WorkNPlay: This another one of the big players. They helped me too last year when I was looking. I still have a good relationship with them. I find them to be honest and patient. *After checking it again I am not sure if these guys are the ones I used. I have another link for "WorkNPlay" and that one might be it.
5. Global Campus: I never heard of them but it looks like they work closely with public schools.
6. GMSC: I never heard of these guys either, but their list of openings looks pretty good.
7. ASKnow-ETO: I think I might have used these guys last year. Since I don't remember clearly they were probably the more obscure ones.
8. ThinkOutside: They look pretty decent, but no specific jobs listed for public school. Though looks like they deal with after school positions as well.
9. BoP Korea: I haven't used this one, but it looks pretty good. 
10. Lingua-ESL Planet: These guys are great and I used them several times. They never gave me anything solid but were very honest and trustworthy. I hope to use them again next time.
11. Korealinx: First time seeing these guys. Their job lost looks meager but maybe they are reliable for certain areas.
12. EnglishWorld: These guys look pretty basic and don't offer a job list.
13. YnG Recruit: First time seeing this one, too. They have a job list but looks outdated.
14. Eduvisor: In Korean, not sure if there is an English equivalent.
15. Touch4teaching: Never used. Looks like their job list is good and updated. Probably a good one to contact.
16. Teacher's Bus (ATC): Looks like they have positions all over the place and in private and public.
17. GA Education: Looks like a strong force with a variety of job listings. 
18. EslAgent: These guys look like they mostly have private school positions so I am not too sure.
19. B2Corea: I got the Korean site but I have inkling there is an English version. I have heard of these guys before, too.
20. ProHanz: I don't know about these guys seems like they are new. 
21. EnglishWork: Never seen these guys before. Their job list looks good but not sure how they would be on the phone.
22. ATIK: These guys look pretty basic and don't offer any specific job list. 

Keep in mind that a public school Korean teacher will look through the list and pick any of these. Probably a good idea to go with 4 yourself that you think are reliable. Sending your info to all of them would be overkill, since most recruiters communicate with each other. Also you don't want one school to get your resume more than once. Good luck!


**UPDATE Reminder: If you are going to go for GEPIK through the typical application process that hires seasonally (September start or March start) than only apply to one recruiter. The application process is where you put in your application and won't know the location of your school till you get accepted. What I am suggesting on this post is for people NOT USING the application process and looking OUTSIDE the hiring season. Thank you~

*If any of you out there have used some of the recruiters on this list give us your opinion. :)

How Many Recruiters?

There are a plethora of recruiters out there to help us Native Teachers find our job. But I had a question come up in my mind whether using more than 3 would be a bad idea.

So I did what anyone would do and I googled the question. I came upon this website gone2korea, which is a recruiter themselves but one I am not using.

They listed their answer as such:

Using Multiple Recruiters - When applicants start using many recruiters (5+) to secure a job it has a negative affect on the overall success of their placement. Recruiters and schools quickly hear about such applicants and they often label them as difficult to work with. Recruiters feel that it's not worth their effort to source a school only to have these applicants say that they have gone with another recruiter, and schools feel that these people are very unstable to have as an employee. Doing your research and then deciding on 2 or even 3 recruiters that you trust is the best approach to getting a job you want. We are not exaggerating!

This sounds like a big red flag. Logically I would assume that a school receiving an application twice from two different recruiters would think that this person is merely just using multiple resources. But then since I know that logic tends to flow backwards here I was starting to believe that what these guys are saying might be true.

I took the next step and contacted a reliable recruiter that I have been using on my job hunt. They are honest with me and I know would provide me with a real-time answer.

Within minutes after emailing I received this response:

There is nothing in Gyeonggi

We have literally nothing until February in GEPIK

Contact as many recruiters as possible

Simple and to the point. It also reflects the growing new trend these days, which is that of competition. The demand for jobs is higher than the supply. So why not put your name out there with other recruiters?

Just another part of the whole process. As you can see this job hunting thing has pretty much taken over my life.

Public vs. Private / Hakwon Dave's Esl chatter

So within my research I thought I would just see if the chatter over at Dave's ESL cafe would provide any legitimate information. Here for you are the responses I found reasonably suitable for contemplation.

Get into a public school. Work your way up. Use your extra office time to get a TESOL cert. and move up a level.

Public schools now start at 2.0 for 22 classes and move up at 200k per level till you reach the top then add 100k per year after that.

Add in 20k per extra afternoon class and even a newbie can pull in 2.4-2.5 + full benefits and not have the stress of a burnout hakwon.

I teach 28 classes of 40 minutes per week. (22 regular and 6 extra curricular).
I get 3 mil per month.
I (officially) get 6 weeks of annual paid holiday. Standard GEPIK contract - 14 WORKING days for the base + 5 working days because I work at a rural designated school). (as compared to 14 calender days in a hakwon).
(The reality was closer to 9 weeks last year).

I get return airfare paid out each year.
I get my severance paid out yearly.
I AM enrolled in the national pension plan. (gonna be a nice golden parachute next year when I leave).

I have medical (NHIC) coverage for myself AND my family (with a monthly premium of 2.54% of my salary).
I have a 60m2 furnished officetel.

Officially I have only ever presented my BA and TESOL cert. to my school.

BE CAREFUL when you only look at the salary as a number and not the whole remuneration package as a whole.

6.7 TEACHING hours per day (33.5 teaching hours per week) could end up being as high as 50 classes of 40 minutes per week and that would be a year in hakwon hell and you still make less than I do.

If you think my job is too good to be true then you can apply for it. I will be retiring (early) next March - there are 2 hectares of white sand beach front with my name on it calling to me.

My thoughts too! Definitely now that I am here and am building up the experience I can understand how there can be a difference.

bassexpander writes:

I taught at a "private" high school.

They are pretty similar to public schools, as 98% of their funding comes from the gov't (just a guess on that number, but I hear it's close). Private schools are able to follow a different set of rules regarding hiring/firing, nepotism (private schools are/were rife with it), etc..

The best advice I can give you is this: In the private school, the principal is KING. If the principal is good, the school is good. If the principal is difficult, then the school will be difficult.

I am definitely seeing this kind of attitude, the principal is well Queen at my school and we are her worker bees. But I wonder if it is any different at a public school, besides a boss is a boss.

I found another answer about public school details here:

2. You get much more holiday in public schools. However, you may still be asked to work during the school vacation; camps, developing teaching materials etc. In a private school you will have to work extra hours during school holidays as they run intensive courses. I hated intensives, but you can make overtime pay. Also the typical working hours will be different - public schools will be teaching in the morning, private in the afternoon and evening - depends on what time you personally prefer (I'm not a morning person).

This comparison seems pretty much my whole reason why I am thinking of trying a public school next. That is because of the intensives and that the teaching hours are mostly in the afternoon and evening.

Well that does it for me, I think I need to just let it all soak in.

Recruiters (My experience)

This blog is going to highlight my experience with recruiters and how I managed to get a contract through one of them.

First of all a WARNING: I cannot say whether or not going with a recruiter or getting the Teaching job by yourself is better than the other. I went the recruiter route because it fit my desire to have less anxiety when finding a teaching job. So please use this blog as just a reference and not the absolute truth.

When I first started my search for a job in Korea I googled and also went to a few websites I knew about like the EPIK program. What I ended up with was a list of several programs and recruiters that I contacted for a job. The list is as followed:

• ASK Korea (Access South Korea)
• Park English
• YBM ECC
• Footprints Recruiting
• Korea Connections
  

When you visit their websites they all outline how to apply, get an interview and so-on. I tried to make sure there was a fluidity between all of these sites and companies. So I started to email and apply online to these places. I made some mistakes of my own along the way. Here is a review of these recruiters.

ASK KOREA:
They were very nice and welcoming. However, I made the mistake that when I emailed them early on I mentioned my concern for health care and that I have Crohn's Disease which is a genetic disease that can be debilitating but when taken care of properly doesn't disrupt daily life. Anyways eventually I heard back from them and they told me they would have to not accept me due to risk I could get sick on the job. I understand that they had a liability issue on their hands, but it was really devastating to hear my disease was like a disability preventing me from my dreams.

However I picked myself up and continued my quest.

Park English:
They were all right. I got an interview by them but I applied really early and was told to wait about a month or so before I wish to leave. My goal was to find something 2 - 3 months early. Anyways, as I emailed other recruiters and got more activity from them, I noticed Park English didn't keep up with the game.

At this point I didn't tell any recruiters about my disease. So Park English kind of just didn't pan out for me.

Footprints Recruiting:
These guys were really professional and also very sincere in trying to get me placed where I wanted. Again though I ran into the problem that they wanted me to apply closer to a month before I left, but I couldn't handle such anxiety.

I did get a few interviews out of them and it was at some schools on the outer edges of Seoul. I really wanted placement in Seoul...so I was holding out. In the end if I didn't go with YBM I would have gone with Footprints.

Korea Connections:
These guys didn't have a problem with my applying early on. However the interviews I got were really sketchy and sometimes strange. One interview I had a with a women whose English was so-so and I tried hard to speak clearly and slowly. Yet it turned out I failed the interview. What I didn't like about Korea Connections is that I received a lot of pressure from the recruiter to make a swift decision and mail him my paperwork. I am somewhat relieved that I didn't go with them because I could have taken the risk that they would have held my paperwork as ransom till I took a certain job. Phew!

I think on the positive side these guys are really persistent and will work for you. But be cautious with their pushy attitude.

YBM ECC:
Let me just say now that this is the one that I signed a contract with. I know that if you go around Dave's ESL that you will find a lot of negativity about YBM. But I ignored all that and did what I wanted. (By the way does Dave even know that his cafe is kind of useless??)

I contacted YBM a year before I actually even took looking for a job in Korea seriously. So I had already a relationship with them. They kept on asking me to gather my paperwork and then they will consider a position for me. So after I had gathered my paperwork I let them know and they gave me several options in Seoul. Interviews came and I started to feel like I was being treated professionally and seriously.

The YBM recruiter was very point-blank about his company and told me honestly what to expect. He said that some recruiters take your paperwork and hold on to it till you take a position they like.

Needless to say I felt like YBM was the right choice. They said they guarantee you a job even if your school goes bankrupt..that sounds nice...right?

So which one is the best?
Again this is really subjective and should be based upon your own logical understanding of the process. I for one am the kind of person who bases a lot of their decisions on feelings. I think YBM was really professional along with Footprints.

I would recommend staying away from Dave's ESL cafe because it is like a swamp of negativity that can suck you into it.

All in all remember that you have the upper hand and advantage. You are the one they want to so you should make sure to be strong and bold in your choices.

Good luck!